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	<title>Comments on: The State of ColdFusion</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.peterelst.com/blog/2009/01/09/the-state-of-coldfusion/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.peterelst.com/blog/2009/01/09/the-state-of-coldfusion/</link>
	<description>Flash Platform Geek</description>
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		<title>By: Jan Seynnaeve</title>
		<link>http://www.peterelst.com/blog/2009/01/09/the-state-of-coldfusion/comment-page-1/#comment-20865</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan Seynnaeve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 13:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterelst.com/blog/?p=1448#comment-20865</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-20533&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Peter&lt;/a&gt; 

I&#039;m someone who studied Devine (where you will be teaching from now on)

I had absolutely no programming experience as I didn&#039;t even study Informatics in secundary school.

What I experienced at Devine was learning a language: (AS3, HTML) but not learning the principles behind it: What I mean is learning which thing is what. But tbh I have no idea OOP is all about. If u are a copycat person and just learn everything mindlessly or when u have a nice basic of programming u will succeed, but as someone who has no basic and isn&#039;t someone who learns without knowing what it is or does u are doomed to fail imo.

U see I quit devine obviously</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-20533" rel="nofollow">@Peter</a> </p>
<p>I&#8217;m someone who studied Devine (where you will be teaching from now on)</p>
<p>I had absolutely no programming experience as I didn&#8217;t even study Informatics in secundary school.</p>
<p>What I experienced at Devine was learning a language: (AS3, HTML) but not learning the principles behind it: What I mean is learning which thing is what. But tbh I have no idea OOP is all about. If u are a copycat person and just learn everything mindlessly or when u have a nice basic of programming u will succeed, but as someone who has no basic and isn&#8217;t someone who learns without knowing what it is or does u are doomed to fail imo.</p>
<p>U see I quit devine obviously</p>
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		<title>By: Rounding up Last Week &#124; Padub</title>
		<link>http://www.peterelst.com/blog/2009/01/09/the-state-of-coldfusion/comment-page-1/#comment-20597</link>
		<dc:creator>Rounding up Last Week &#124; Padub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterelst.com/blog/?p=1448#comment-20597</guid>
		<description>[...] of ColdFusion. Aral says that learning ColdFusion is a waste of time, and Peter believes that it is time for Adobe to help shape ColdFusionâ€™s direction. Many other said many more things on these two posts [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of ColdFusion. Aral says that learning ColdFusion is a waste of time, and Peter believes that it is time for Adobe to help shape ColdFusionâ€™s direction. Many other said many more things on these two posts [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ain Tohvri</title>
		<link>http://www.peterelst.com/blog/2009/01/09/the-state-of-coldfusion/comment-page-1/#comment-20535</link>
		<dc:creator>Ain Tohvri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 00:20:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterelst.com/blog/?p=1448#comment-20535</guid>
		<description>Competition always leads to a better platform. With strong PHP community, devs from Ruby on Rails etc., Coldfusion faces some real challenges.

In 2009 we&#039;ll surely see many conversions to Open Source.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Competition always leads to a better platform. With strong PHP community, devs from Ruby on Rails etc., Coldfusion faces some real challenges.</p>
<p>In 2009 we&#8217;ll surely see many conversions to Open Source.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffry Houser</title>
		<link>http://www.peterelst.com/blog/2009/01/09/the-state-of-coldfusion/comment-page-1/#comment-20534</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffry Houser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterelst.com/blog/?p=1448#comment-20534</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-20533&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Peter&lt;/a&gt; 

 I believe the technologies of choice used to teach the concepts should be those that are most relevant to the local companies.  I have no idea if that is taken into consideration universally, though.  I have read stories of colleges having &quot;X Degree&quot; because they are located near &quot;X Industry&quot;; although I don&#039;t have a specific example.

 That said, however, in many situations it&#039;d be hard to fault a college for choices; perhaps using .NET over Java.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-20533" rel="nofollow">@Peter</a> </p>
<p> I believe the technologies of choice used to teach the concepts should be those that are most relevant to the local companies.  I have no idea if that is taken into consideration universally, though.  I have read stories of colleges having &#8220;X Degree&#8221; because they are located near &#8220;X Industry&#8221;; although I don&#8217;t have a specific example.</p>
<p> That said, however, in many situations it&#8217;d be hard to fault a college for choices; perhaps using .NET over Java.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.peterelst.com/blog/2009/01/09/the-state-of-coldfusion/comment-page-1/#comment-20533</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 17:56:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterelst.com/blog/?p=1448#comment-20533</guid>
		<description>@jeff, @lagaffe -- I agree with that in general terms, not to go too much off-topic but the situation in Belgium is slightly different. 

We have a few colleges that specifically teach multimedia design and development rather than just a general computer science curriculum (and doing an excellent job at that by the way). As a result there is a real focus on Flash Platform products on top of generic OO and programming skills.

I think its important Adobe makes ColdFusion attractive as a product to teach to these students who will be the next batch out in the workplace with relevant skills to take on the next generation of RIA development. 

http://www.peterelst.com/blog/2008/03/02/devine-digital-design-and-media/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@jeff, @lagaffe &#8212; I agree with that in general terms, not to go too much off-topic but the situation in Belgium is slightly different. </p>
<p>We have a few colleges that specifically teach multimedia design and development rather than just a general computer science curriculum (and doing an excellent job at that by the way). As a result there is a real focus on Flash Platform products on top of generic OO and programming skills.</p>
<p>I think its important Adobe makes ColdFusion attractive as a product to teach to these students who will be the next batch out in the workplace with relevant skills to take on the next generation of RIA development. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.peterelst.com/blog/2008/03/02/devine-digital-design-and-media/" rel="nofollow">http://www.peterelst.com/blog/2008/03/02/devine-digital-design-and-media/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jeffry Houser</title>
		<link>http://www.peterelst.com/blog/2009/01/09/the-state-of-coldfusion/comment-page-1/#comment-20531</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffry Houser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterelst.com/blog/?p=1448#comment-20531</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-20530&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Lagaffe&lt;/a&gt; 

We agree that college won&#039;t produce experts / specialists.  Only real world experience will generate those.

 There are just to many different technologies for a college to cover all of them in a single curriculum.  The focus should not be on technology but on concepts.

 I would expect a curriculum to cover OO programming concepts, but I wouldn&#039;t expect it to cover Smalltalk, C++, Java, and all the other languages ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_programming_language ).  

 I would expect a curriculum to cover Procedural programming concepts, but I wouldn&#039;t expect it to cover Pascal, C, Basic, and all of the other languages ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Procedural_programming_languages ).

 I would expect a  curriculum to cover database design; but I wouldn&#039;t expect them to cover MS Access, SQL Server, Oracle, MySQL, PostGres, DBase, SQLLite, and every other db platform in existence.

 [etc.. etc.. etc..]

 The fact is that there are too many technologies out there to cover them all.  At some point someone must have made a decision of one over the other.  To fault them for not including &quot;X&quot; is short sighted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-20530" rel="nofollow">@Lagaffe</a> </p>
<p>We agree that college won&#8217;t produce experts / specialists.  Only real world experience will generate those.</p>
<p> There are just to many different technologies for a college to cover all of them in a single curriculum.  The focus should not be on technology but on concepts.</p>
<p> I would expect a curriculum to cover OO programming concepts, but I wouldn&#8217;t expect it to cover Smalltalk, C++, Java, and all the other languages ( <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_programming_language" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_programming_language</a> ).  </p>
<p> I would expect a curriculum to cover Procedural programming concepts, but I wouldn&#8217;t expect it to cover Pascal, C, Basic, and all of the other languages ( <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Procedural_programming_languages" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Procedural_programming_languages</a> ).</p>
<p> I would expect a  curriculum to cover database design; but I wouldn&#8217;t expect them to cover MS Access, SQL Server, Oracle, MySQL, PostGres, DBase, SQLLite, and every other db platform in existence.</p>
<p> [etc.. etc.. etc..]</p>
<p> The fact is that there are too many technologies out there to cover them all.  At some point someone must have made a decision of one over the other.  To fault them for not including &#8220;X&#8221; is short sighted.</p>
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		<title>By: Lagaffe</title>
		<link>http://www.peterelst.com/blog/2009/01/09/the-state-of-coldfusion/comment-page-1/#comment-20530</link>
		<dc:creator>Lagaffe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:18:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterelst.com/blog/?p=1448#comment-20530</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-20521&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Jeffry Houser&lt;/a&gt; Of course college should be about programming concepts, so I don&#039;t expect that they&#039;ll deliver specialists that can only work with one (or several) language. But that doesn&#039;t mean that they can&#039;t at least explain the different technologies out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-20521" rel="nofollow">@Jeffry Houser</a> Of course college should be about programming concepts, so I don&#8217;t expect that they&#8217;ll deliver specialists that can only work with one (or several) language. But that doesn&#8217;t mean that they can&#8217;t at least explain the different technologies out there.</p>
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		<title>By: barry.b</title>
		<link>http://www.peterelst.com/blog/2009/01/09/the-state-of-coldfusion/comment-page-1/#comment-20528</link>
		<dc:creator>barry.b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:30:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterelst.com/blog/?p=1448#comment-20528</guid>
		<description>@Peter

I wish @aral had spent the time reading well balanced posts like yours before jumping in half-cocked and illinformed and spreading unnecessary FUD everywhere. his obvious ignorance just made him look like a fool.

good on yer for taking the time to write this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Peter</p>
<p>I wish @aral had spent the time reading well balanced posts like yours before jumping in half-cocked and illinformed and spreading unnecessary FUD everywhere. his obvious ignorance just made him look like a fool.</p>
<p>good on yer for taking the time to write this.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Corfield</title>
		<link>http://www.peterelst.com/blog/2009/01/09/the-state-of-coldfusion/comment-page-1/#comment-20524</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Corfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterelst.com/blog/?p=1448#comment-20524</guid>
		<description>Have a read of my recent blog post which also addresses this:

Common ColdFusion Arguments 2009

It talks about progress in the CFML world since my previous, somewhat challenging, post on this subject a year ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have a read of my recent blog post which also addresses this:</p>
<p>Common ColdFusion Arguments 2009</p>
<p>It talks about progress in the CFML world since my previous, somewhat challenging, post on this subject a year ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Dale Rankine</title>
		<link>http://www.peterelst.com/blog/2009/01/09/the-state-of-coldfusion/comment-page-1/#comment-20523</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale Rankine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterelst.com/blog/?p=1448#comment-20523</guid>
		<description>I learned Allaire Cold Fusion 3.1 back in the late 90&#039;s and have been using it to varying degrees ever since. I use it still today with our Flash Lite company, driving back end services from mobile Flash applications, and using the same back end to drive complimentary apps on the web or desktop. The young guys who have come through our team are mostly PHP developers, but I&#039;m always pleased to see them pick up CF very easily. Over the past 10 years or so there have always been these debates on CF&#039;s place and potential for extinction. It&#039;s still here, still gathering developers, and still improving as a product.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I learned Allaire Cold Fusion 3.1 back in the late 90&#8242;s and have been using it to varying degrees ever since. I use it still today with our Flash Lite company, driving back end services from mobile Flash applications, and using the same back end to drive complimentary apps on the web or desktop. The young guys who have come through our team are mostly PHP developers, but I&#8217;m always pleased to see them pick up CF very easily. Over the past 10 years or so there have always been these debates on CF&#8217;s place and potential for extinction. It&#8217;s still here, still gathering developers, and still improving as a product.</p>
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